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Old 04-02-2013, 06:16 PM   #1
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Default Increasing the performance - Gen II or Gen III engines

So, is anybody on this forum currently working on increasing the performance of their Gen II or Gen III engines?
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #2
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Can I ask that same question on the Registry's Facebook page
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:19 PM   #3
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Can I ask that same question on the Registry's Facebook page
Absofrigginloutley Jeff !
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:36 PM   #4
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Sounds good, put this in it's own thread so the link would make sense
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #5
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I know somebody who is!
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:57 PM   #6
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You?
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:07 PM   #7
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Not me!
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:32 PM   #8
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Well, spill it man!
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:01 AM   #9
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My Gen III is built for the street and will stay that way...most of us have learned that more than 700 rwhp on the street is pushing the envelope in about five wrong directions.

She just came out of hibernation...and is still a thrill to drive...build to your heart's content, but "begin with the end in mind" and "seek first to understand"...wise words from Stephen Covey about much more than high powered recreational rides.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:40 AM   #10
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Good to see you still have your 10 Roy and... some of us have proven 500 HP can lead to that same knowledge LOL
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #11
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My Gen III is built for the street and will stay that way...most of us have learned that more than 700 rwhp on the street is pushing the envelope in about five wrong directions.

She just came out of hibernation...and is still a thrill to drive...build to your heart's content, but "begin with the end in mind" and "seek first to understand"...wise words from Stephen Covey about much more than high powered recreational rides.
Also, paying attention to the PEPC balance is applicable to owning/building a performance vehicle. RIP Dr. Covey.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:20 PM   #12
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof View Post
My Gen III is built for the street and will stay that way...most of us have learned that more than 700 rwhp on the street is pushing the envelope in about five wrong directions.

She just came out of hibernation...and is still a thrill to drive...build to your heart's content, but "begin with the end in mind" and "seek first to understand"...wise words from Stephen Covey about much more than high powered recreational rides.
Wise words from a wise man.

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:59 PM   #14
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Ronnie, is this something that can be done by anyone that knows there way around a viper motor or something that is best left for those that are bit more qualified
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:04 PM   #15
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Ronnie, is this something that can be done by anyone that knows there way around a viper motor or something that is best left for those that are bit more qualified
Jeff-

The Gen III Viper engine is really quite conventional.

In my opinion, there is NOTHING about them that requires a specific skill-set or any special things that need to be learned before rebuilding one. I'm sure that statement has the potential to bring screams of protest. But, in reality, they are a 2-valve per cylinder pushrod engine held together by nuts and bolts and are FAR less sophisticated than what is out there today on the streets. For the most part, rebuilding one is a straight-forward proposition but like taking on any other engine rebuild, it requires a good basic understanding of the project.

Now with that said, are there people out there that do a better job at building these engines than others? Absolutely, and these are the individuals that should be hired to build/rebuild these engines if someone is in need of a rebuild or performance build. Or they just don't feel comfortable taking on the task themselves. All I am saying is they really are a simple performance engine, which is part of their charm.

We don't have any machine shops around here anymore that can do a good job on these engines (in my opinion) so I am having my short block machined and the reciprocating balanced by someone I trust. So I had to ship it away for that part.

Basic (sound) engine building techniques need to be applied to every engine if they are expected to make good power and last. It is becoming harder to find those that do really exceptional engine work. Maybe with the rising popularity of crate engines, it is becoming a bit of a lost art. But these individuals are out there and are definitely worth finding. Tips and tricks learned by those that specialize in particular engines can yield great results.

I think I mentioned before that ALL of the crate engines I have seen so far have needed to be gone through before putting them into service. Every one of them had unbelievably sloppy assembly. I am not talking about Viper engines here. Mopars and Chevs (so far).

I've learned about these engines the same ways I learned about other engines in the past: By taking them apart and having a really good look around. And of course I've learned from talking with others as well. It is once you get into subjects that go beyond basic assembly techniques (like how to make good power) many guys will at least, "agree to disagree". That is what makes this particular hobby so interesting.

With nothing but good pump gas, my new engine should be very close to 800 crank and produce a considerable amount of torque; which Is what I am most interested in. The truck could be driven for LONG distances without any issues and get decent fuel mileage. That is something that anyone with one of these engines can accomplish. You could add another 40 or 50 horsepower (peak) with a more aggressive cam profile. The 800 crank mark is in no way a maximum effort number, nor something that is in any way a milestone power number. It is just a number in this case and will make for a fast, fun, reliable vehicle with great manners.

I think it is really important to spend some time on R&D, and try ONE THING AT A TIME. Because it is quite possible one component or change helped and the other had an opposite effect. This is particularly true when modifying cylinder heads and making other changes to a vehicle at the same time.

The viper engines seem particularly sensitive to changes in airflow. It makes sense they would be as they were designed for high velocity/torque (small'ish ports, intake and exhaust valves) and don't need to be buzzed to make good power.

The Gen III Intake manifold looks cool, but it is not a very good design so there is room to make improvements to it. Almost any modification to the Gen III intake will reduce torque and horsepower down low in favour of top-end power. So, with that known, a builder can build low r.p.m. torque in another area of the engine and let the upper r.p.m. power of the intake mods do their thing. The net result is a broad increase in overall power production. So working with high velocity engine (like ours) can allow for flexibility in a performance build.

Throwing multiple changes at an engine all at once (which most people do) will often result in more power than you had before but: DOES IT MAKE AS MUCH POWER AS IT COULD BE MAKING? Doing one thing at a time (or maybe 2) is a better way to go, I think. Then you know for sure what worked and what didn't. And, if you're lucky, WHY it worked, or didn't..

So after a really long post, YES someone that has an aptitude for building performance engines could build a Viper engine. But finding someone that is REALLY GOOD rebuilding them could really pay off especially if you are pushing them quite a ways past their original 500 horsepower.


I hope this helps.

performance ramblings....

Ronnie

Last edited by Ronnie; 04-22-2013 at 08:21 PM.
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